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Healing items in PvP: Poll

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Arinoth AdminDM
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Hey all. This is just a quick poll about what the community wants regarding the use of healing items during PvP. While you may discuss it/state your opinions or personal preference, please do not devolve into an argument.
Yes, healing items should be used during pvp.
31 votes
44.3%
No, healing items should not be used during pvp.
39 votes
55.7%
Number of voters: 70
Poll is closed
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Posted Feb 1, 19 · OP
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Healing is a part of the game, whether it is for PVE or PVP. This is the way the game is currently intended to be played. I suggest we wait and see what funcom changes to the healing aspects of the game, as they may be unhappy with the current trend. I think it behooves us to play the game as intended, and not be so selective as this may have sweeping, unintended consequences down the line.

I know this isn't going to be received well, but I do not think an admin should have participated in a raid in which they were asked to oversee. That is too much split attention, when I think the priority needs to be to the players they are overseeing.

Nor do I think the genesis of this question and debate ought to be based on a single instance of one raid. Did those participating in the raid have a good time? Have they lodged complaints? If not, then this is a solution in search of a problem.

I have never liked the realism argument because this is a game. We game with the explicit intent to escape reality for some mostly consequence-free fun.

At the end of the day, it is being asked that something that is part of the game be taken away from players—something that is readily available to all players. I do not like something being taken away from me when I have neither abused it, nor can I abuse it when the game specifically allows for it.
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Posted Feb 3, 19
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Something that's always sort of sat rather awkwardly with me is the idea that everything we do is IC, but certain gamey elements aren't explained away in ways that make more sense to properly facilitate that sort of viewpoint. Even if we're going off of the Realism argument (one which I find to be inherently flawed in the first place, as more "realism" doesn't always equal more "fun," "engaging," "good," or "immersive," if long, tedious, simulationist elements in games such as Red Dead Redemption 2 are any indication), it seems a little odd to me that the go-to default for "realistic" fighting is someone getting chonked in two hits and dying.

Sure, that may be the way that we see things happen in Conan, but usually the way that I've seen things tend to be reasoned out in games in which large amounts of players exist is that the players, unless otherwise stated by their character concepts, are the Exceptional Ones. Going up against another player isn't Conan mowing down yet another Setite, it's Conan going up against another Conan, someone who could give them a real run for their money. In that case, why not rationalize "healing" in combat as simply the elements of a prolonged fight? Sometimes things drag out; glancing blows happen, people take multiple cuts and scratches, things take a while. Good fights aren't necessarily short, and I think that if people went down in a couple of hits, we'd actually lose quite a bit of drama and tension in the long run (especially if, as others have stated beforehand, lag prevents them from really putting up much resistance). I think that, ultimately, a longer, drawn-out fight will be more fun to participate in and to watch than one in which the enemy is splattered across the screen in a few seconds for one reason or another. The latter, in many instances, is hardly memorable; I think it would be something of a challenge for most here to remember a fight scene against some major threat or character that was over in an instant and was impactful without being a subversion or a joke.

If people really really really want healing items to be absent from specific combat arenas, this seems like something that they should agree upon beforehand. That way, those who wish to have their fights faster and deadlier can do so. Alternatively, we could perhaps think about instituting a "half-way ban," in which the fastest or most powerful healing items are banned from use (it's worth noting that, despite appearances, this wouldn't be all that more difficult to keep tabs on than the already nigh-impossible feat of knowing whether people are using healing items or not, as the vast majority of cases under both systems will likely come down to he-said-she-said, unless an admin is specifically watching the health bars of all combatants involved). I don't know what the circumstances surrounding this situation are (they sound somewhat messy), but if all of this is the result of a single situation, then perhaps we should wait a bit to see how things pan out in a slightly longer timeframe before implementing a rule change that ends up having this large of an impact.
Posted Feb 3, 19 · Last edited Feb 3, 19
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I put yes, becuase this is a hard rule to enforce. But fighitng without healing is more realistic. ;)
Posted Feb 4, 19
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The game is balanced in a specific way that incorporates healing, from weapon design to builds. If you remove healing from the game then you create a single, narrow meta that is skill less and based solely on trades, rather than a fulfilling and skill based fight.

The arguments against it are usually due to people being lazy and thus not wanting to farm healing items, which is one of the easiest items to farm. - Switching weapons in combat is not realistic, building a house without any knowledge of building is unrealistic. Nothing about this game is ''realistic'' when it comes to game mechanics and balance.
Posted Feb 5, 19
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Arinoth AdminDM
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Apparently my posts before have not been read, so I will state again:
This rule suggestion has little to nothing to do with events that have happened recently. This is a server setting that used to be enforced via one of our mods, which made healing items useless in combat and nearly useless outside of combat, and that is something I liked back then because taking away healing items actually does rely on skill, since you can't heal up from mistakes you make and it requires you to learn your style of combat rather than simply rely on mechanical gimmics.

As for the comment about lazy players: No, the arguments against it thus far have had nothing to do with players being too lazy to farm mats. They have come entirely from the perspective of immersion and RP integrity, which is why we had this rule back in the day and why I am running by the community the possibility of this rule coming back currently.

If you are going to comment in this thread, where it is clearly stated why this rule is being suggested, please don't make suggestions or assumptions that have nothing to do with what has been said. Read the posts that have come before, before commenting.
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Posted Feb 5, 19 · OP · Last edited Feb 5, 19
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I recall the server setting having to do with Yellow Lotus Potions, not healing items/pots. Healing items may well have been far long before my time. Just because they were made by the original owner of the server does not mean they were good decisions, or sustainable decisions. You are not beholden to his wishes, nor his vision.
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Posted Feb 6, 19
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So, wait, are we voting to disable healing for all combat in general or just pvp? Because the vote options say for PVP specifically, but Ari is saying it's for ALL COMBAT. These are two very different things.
Posted Feb 6, 19
Arinoth AdminDM
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No, I said the setting USED to be for all combat. The vote is still the vote.
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Posted Feb 6, 19 · OP
Conceptually, I agree healing items are silly. However, that is how the game is designed. You are meant to wolf down food, drinks, and potions in and out of combat to heal up. Changing that seems... highly impractical. I, at least, have no idea how it could be done in a way that doesn't cause even more problems.

I can't fathom a mod that could be smart enough to allow food in PvE but not in PvP. If that isn't possible, that means a mod that switched off healing foods could have ruinous effects on PvE balance and enjoyment. Also upon dealing with elite animal and thralls in combat, which rock north of 8k effective hit points. Healing is the only thing that makes dealing with those types of enemies practical.

Which means... what, we'd be on the honor system not to use healing items in combat? I'm pretty firmly against any rule that is going to lead to people crying "cheater" when they lose, rightfully or not. It engenders a lot of ill will no matter how delicately the situation is handled. And it is going to happen, a lot.

If people are having a PvP encounter and they want to agree to certain rules beforehand about consumables or weapons or whatever, the more power to them. But enforcing a blanket rule like this seems a mission that can only end in disaster.

I will also remind anyone that doesn't like their enemies healing in combat that all you have to do is put a bleed or poison on them and it shuts it down entirely. Daggers, axes, spears, and bows can all do that, as well as reaper poison on any weapon. You've got options.
Posted Feb 6, 19
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